Update on reviews for DeafATW users already affected by the 30 hour rule
When the Minister for Disability met with UKCoD, as well as talking about the review of AtW overall, and suspending the ‘30-hour guidance’ for new AtW applicants, he also mentioned that there would be reviews for AtW users who had been negatively affected by the ‘30-hour guidance’. This last part wasn’t repeated in the announcement of the review to parliament.
However Deaf AtW users understood that they could be reviewed, and believed that this review would look at the negative impact of the changes to them, e.g. in reduced budgets, reduced hours, etc.
However feedback from Deaf AtW users is that this is not how the reviews are being done.
Instead the reviews are being done as ‘business-as-usual’ reviews, i.e. assuming that the level and nature of support being received are ok, and that the only reason to change anything through the review is if something has changed about the support you need. E.g. if your employer has agreed to part fund your support until the problems with AtW are sorted out, then AtW in the review are saying that as your employer is part funding as they should be, there’s no need to make a change.
Many Deaf people feel that given what the Minister said at the UKCoD meeting, that they were told a special team would be looking at their reviews, and that the 30-hour guidance is being suspended for new applicants, it was implicit that this would be a review specifically looking at, and hopefully addressing at least some, of the negative impact of the 30-hour guidance on them. This appears not to be the case.
However Deaf AtW users understood that they could be reviewed, and believed that this review would look at the negative impact of the changes to them, e.g. in reduced budgets, reduced hours, etc.
However feedback from Deaf AtW users is that this is not how the reviews are being done.
Instead the reviews are being done as ‘business-as-usual’ reviews, i.e. assuming that the level and nature of support being received are ok, and that the only reason to change anything through the review is if something has changed about the support you need. E.g. if your employer has agreed to part fund your support until the problems with AtW are sorted out, then AtW in the review are saying that as your employer is part funding as they should be, there’s no need to make a change.
Many Deaf people feel that given what the Minister said at the UKCoD meeting, that they were told a special team would be looking at their reviews, and that the 30-hour guidance is being suspended for new applicants, it was implicit that this would be a review specifically looking at, and hopefully addressing at least some, of the negative impact of the 30-hour guidance on them. This appears not to be the case.
Statement following meeting with DWP
17 March 2014
Action Deafness, Action on Hearing Loss, British Deaf Association, NDCS, RAD, Sense and Signature met with DWP Access to Work Senior management this week to discuss concerns over the 30 hours rule and salaried interpreters which has greatly affected many deaf professionals in the past few months.
This followed correspondence where the organisations had stated in the strongest terms their concerns about the impact of the policy on deaf and deafblind people, the lack of consultation or proper impact assessment. After a constructive meeting we agreed to summarise our remaining concerns so that they can respond.
We believe we have given the Access to Work team a good insight and suggested solutions for a way forward to ensure that deaf and deaf blind people can stay in employment with the appropriate support.
Access to Work representatives acknowledged the impact this policy was having on deaf and deafblind people in employment. At the end of the meeting, the Access to Work Team said they valued our input and agreed to go away and consider their position in the light of the conversation as well as continuing the dialogue with a follow up meeting in April.
Action Deafness, Action on Hearing Loss, British Deaf Association, NDCS, RAD, Sense and Signature met with DWP Access to Work Senior management this week to discuss concerns over the 30 hours rule and salaried interpreters which has greatly affected many deaf professionals in the past few months.
This followed correspondence where the organisations had stated in the strongest terms their concerns about the impact of the policy on deaf and deafblind people, the lack of consultation or proper impact assessment. After a constructive meeting we agreed to summarise our remaining concerns so that they can respond.
We believe we have given the Access to Work team a good insight and suggested solutions for a way forward to ensure that deaf and deaf blind people can stay in employment with the appropriate support.
Access to Work representatives acknowledged the impact this policy was having on deaf and deafblind people in employment. At the end of the meeting, the Access to Work Team said they valued our input and agreed to go away and consider their position in the light of the conversation as well as continuing the dialogue with a follow up meeting in April.
Introduction to the 30 hour 'rule'Summary:
AtW were telling many Deaf and Deafblind customers that if they have 30 or more hours interpreting a week they must recruit their own full time interpreter. They are still sometimes saying this, but more often now say that if you 'choose' not to employ an interpreter, they will only give you an award that covers the cost of an employed interpreter. AtW are now also sometimes saying that if you work part time and need an interpreter for most of the hours you work, then this 'rule' applies to you to. The problems with this are discussed in detail in the "Disagree with AtW" document you can download below. This is a summary of the main issues. From AtW Guidance v 22: "Recruitment of Support Workers If a Support Worker is required full time, for example 30 hours or more a week, Access to Work will normally fund on the basis of an annual salary rather than an Agency worker employed on an hourly basis." (AtW 364) What has changed? This has been in the AtW Guidance document in previous versions, but now many Deaf people are being told it is a policy decision, and that they have to do this. So Deaf and Deafblind people with over 30 hours support are being told that they will be given £30,000 salary plus £5,000 on costs to employ an interpreter. Should they 'choose' not to employ an interpreter, then that is the maximum funding they will receive. Some Deaf people were allowed to spend this funding flexibly, but now Deaf people are usually told it is limited to an hourly rate of between £11.00 to £18.00 an hour. This prevents people from paying the interpreter's normal fees for fewer hours each week Why this is impossible for Deaf and Deafblind people to do?
AtW are currently not responding to the issues being raised by Deaf people, just some of which include: 1) It isn't appropriate to employ an interpreter full time - it doesn't meet the Deaf person's needs which are to use different interpreters in different situations. AtW own guidance supports this. 2) Interpreters won't work with one Deaf person full time and won't work at that salary. 3) The amount being offered does not come close to the actual cost of employing someone at £30,000 with on costs, including for example pension, training (required for interpreters), etc. 4) Employers don't want to employ additional staff, and so are less likely to recruit or keep Deaf staff. 5) The amount being offered is for one full time employed interpreter. But what about sick cover, when two interpreters are needed, when the Deaf person needs to do a long day, work at weekends, etc. And when you add all these extra costs, are AtW actually saving any or much money compared with just having freelance interpreters? 6) For some Deaf people the nature of their work means that one interpreter couldn't safely work with them everyday on their own, because it would lead to health problems (Upper Limb Disorder etc.). For example, I work with one Deaf person whose work is unpredictable and very busy, and who often really should have two interpreters for presentations, meetings etc. but can't get them at such short notice, and can't afford them with the AtW funding they have. I can do my best for one day, and go home exhausted, making sure the next day my interpreting work is more balanced, but I couldn't work with him like that every day. |
Introduction to the 30 hour 'rule' Part 1 - BSLIntroduction to the 30 hour 'rule' Part 2 - BSLIntroduction to the 30 hour 'rule' Part 3 - BSLHow does it affect Deaf people?
The effect for some Deaf people has been devastating. I have spoken to: One person who's gone down from 5 days very necessary full time cover with a team of trusted interpreters, to 3 days a week with less experienced interpreters, as they have been told only to use interpreters who live close by and those people are less experienced. The Deaf person has not been able to recruit an interpreter, and the reduced budget AtW have given won't stretch further than three days' support. One person who needs to increase their hours due to the increase in meetings at work, but who won't because they are frightened of ATW's response. As a consequence they are managing with a decreasing pool of interpreters as interpreters are unable to manage the heavy work load on their own. One person who has already decided not to replace their Deaf staff as they leave, because the AtW decision means they would be doubling their staff size with interpreters, and the full on costs and risks to employers are not covered by AtW funding. Many Deaf and Deafblind people receiving AtW are experiencing huge stress at the moment, and are worried (with good reason) that the uncritical application of this 'rule' may jeopardise their employment now, and their prospects in the future. |
Reasons why employing your own interpreter is difficult or impossible
The document to download below gives lots of examples explaining why employing an interpreter is difficult or impossible.
The examples came from Deaf people and interpreters. They are listed with the relevant AtW Guidance. AtW are now using Version 22 of their Guidance. However all the information in the document has stayed the same, it's just the paragraph numbers that have changed. So please carry on using this, but remember the paragraph numbers will be slightly different. |
Reasons why employing your own interpreter is difficult or impossible - BSL
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Spreadsheet comparing the real cost of employing a staff interpreter with the cost of just using freelance interpreters - Version 2The spreadsheet to download below contains a lot of information. Many of the figures come from AtW own Guidance. For it to be useful you need to put your own interpreting needs in, for example; how many half days and full days you book interpreters, and how many times a year you have to book two interpreters.
Version 2 corrects the amount shown for management costs, and adds in red an explanation of what AtW are currently saying. |
Spreadsheet comparing the real cost of employing a staff interpreter with the cost of just using freelance interpreters - Version 2 - BSL |